(no subject) [トラ爺]

X-Men

+ Whoa, for a while it had an allegory for disenfranchised groups that actually worked! Subcultures and everything!
+ One of the first comic books to have complex character development and shit!
+ Also one of the first attempts to be fairly diverse, even though it was pretty LOL TOKEN there for a while.

- HOUSE OF M AND ALL ITS IMPLICATIONS RRRRRRRRRRGH. Ugh basically I just hate how it's turned into Marvel's little cash cow. I hate how Death Is Cheap is becoming so prevalent as to mutate into something almost akin to parody. I DON'T KNOW ANY OF THESE PEOPLE. I MISS THE BRONZE AGE :(

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LET'S DO THE OBVIOUS FIRST

/crams fifteen hot pockets in her mouth

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WOULD YOU LIKE TO TL;DR ABOUT VESPERIA? Y/N (I will never answer N)

+ LOL I AM JUST GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE CAST FOR THREE BULLET POINTS (not really). In specific, I feel like the game has a level of self-awareness about the characters' flaws that is frustratingly rare in other games of its genre or even series. You know the feeling, where nobody else seems to notice just how obnoxious this character is. And like the idea where personality flaws can actually be more than just a character's internal conflict outwardly manifesting. I don't even know if that makes sense but there you are. I appreciate that Vesperia is relatively low on that. Obvs. Estelle is who I'm thinking of primarily, but I think it applies to everybody. AND they like, grow and shit!! Or most of them do, and I think the rest would have too had the game decided not to raid its great-aunt's vodka stash somewhere around the twenty-hour mark.
+ OH MY GOD NO FORCED ROMANCE I didn't know you had it in you, Namco. Related: the ~nakama~ idea is executed better in this game than in others, I think in large part due to my previous two points.
+ I have a boner for fantasy politics!! Or, I think the historical Entelexeia/human relationship (though, of course, a large part of that is fanwank...) is interesting and they should have made the game more about that instead. I like the idea of these two ultimately incompatible species struggling for dominance, where the loser has to die completely, and the wrong team lost.

- I'm going to avoid the obvious and complain about how poorly developed the setting is. Like, what time period and culture are we trying to evoke, here? Why do we have force fields and no guns? Women in the military (and in fairly high-ranking positions; I mean Sodia IS second-in-command to the Commandant, crazy as she is), among other things, imply a modern-day kind of society, and yet we still have monarchies and empires. And there's internal plumbing? Why are there no societies on the other continents? What are the guilds even?? Etc. etc.

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What are the guilds even??

MY QUESTION EXACTLY. I never quite understood that, or I felt like asking the game designers "does the word 'guild' mean the same for you as it means for the rest of us?" The strange technology-time period dissonance is also awkward for me, and ultimately I find myself wondering about the time period and culture too.

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It's really frustrating because that's an aspect of the story that's actually pretty difficult to reconcile without changing a lot, and it's a BIG aspect of the story. I feel like the most important thing about the guilds is that they are people who broke apart from the empire (and there is apparently only one in the whole world) whose organization is much more rough and undeveloped and rife with internal conflict, with different smaller factions struggling to take power. I mean, really, their only unifying trait is that they don't like the empire. The whole OH BUT THEY HAVE SPECIFIC ROLES thing should just be scrapped because it's just kind of dumb (and it implies that there in fact is a consistent backing set of laws, which contradicts what we know about guild society).

And then there's still the issue of why are there only two human organizations in the whole world. The easy answer is that we only see part of the planet during the game and there's more land on the other side, but then we've got the whole time-period-vs.-technology problem again, because if that's the case why is nothing of the sort ever mentioned? I mean, they've got boats, why doesn't anybody go exploring? ARGH

Edited Date: 2010-10-25 02:04 am (UTC)

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I think Vesperia's cast is definitely its strongest aspect, and what you said re: "had the game decided not to raid its great-aunt's vodka stash somewhere around the twenty-hour mark" sort of resonates -- had it not felt compelled to follow the same formula as other Tales games, I think we would have remained remarkably octopus-less.

As for the timeframe, idk, I sort of classified it as "medieval pseudo-fantasy" and left it at that; trying to look into it any more is a recipe for disaster...it's a problem that happens with other series, too, so. For why society hasn't moved to other continents, I guess it's supposed to be related to the "monsters are so vicious in attacking towns that they need the force fields to survive, and those are heavily regulated by the Empire and probs aren't easy to get with guilds either" thing. But if it's really that bad, how on EARTH are they going to survive without blastia at the end...? THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP?

I definitely am behind you with the "force fields and no guns" thing, though -- I think you and Nat mentioned that at one point during your rewatch of that ~*~lovely~*~ movie.

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I think what grates most about the octopus-and-beyond half of the plot is that the stupidest part of it, the summon spirits, are not in any way a requisite aspect of Tales games. They're nowhere to be found in Abyss, for example. They're mentioned, but only if you go looking, and they're in an incarnation that makes sense for the game's setting. Abyss is also one of the more solidly-executed entries in the series. Coincidence? Probably to some degree, but it does make the spirits' inclusion in Vesperia that much more aggravating.

I'm with you on just kind of letting it go, but it does make some other bits rather weird to interpret. Like, should we consider examples of sexism part of the setting's culture or write it off as Japan being gross, or both.

lol yeah I think

motorbike was the one who brought it up and I was like HEY--YEAH. I think it's sort of handwaved by humans not being able to make their own yet. This is one instance where I much prefer our blastia-were-invented-by-Entelexeia explanation, because it makes more sense for them to give humans only what would be required as bare necessities (e.g. protection from monsters, enough control of water to maintain agriculture) and the humans to develop them beyond their intended use (i.e. weaponize them) than it does for humans to have invented them themselves and just...not get to the point of making sophisticated weaponry before the octopus came and wrecked everything. And then iirc the Hermes blastia were almost all weapons, right? Just like humans to make those first.

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zen we shall do...Earthbound next, perhops

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PENGIE I HAVEN'T EVEN GOTTEN AN HOUR INTO THIS GAME, I HAVEN'T EVEN MET ANYBODY ELSE

+ The 50s feel is very charming!
+ AUTO-WIN YES THIS IS AMAZING MORE GAMES SHOULD DO THIS
+ I hear there is gay later.

- Right now it is really hard to grind! Like I defeated the first boss so I can't go kill his minions, but everything in the new dungeon kicks my ass and I don't want to spend fifty million bucks on hospital stays. :(

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AKJSHKFJSD WHY HAVE YOU NOT GOTTEN ANY FURTHER YOU STARTED LIKE A MONTH AGO YOU HOBAGGER ;AAAA; bawwwwwwww you need to get to not!England skjhsdfkjsdhf

You mean Giant Step? A good recipe for grinding in dungeons is to just camp by the entrance so you can run out when you need a rest -- also, I wouldn't call this a "cheat" necessarily, but if too many groups of enemies spawn when you enter a room, just go back through the door and re-enter until the odds are more favorable.

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I HAVE NO ATTENTION SPAN OKAY IT WILL HAPPEN

okay I will. take that advice. it will just be tedious. god how can cockroaches beat me up

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und zen Persona 4

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+ Again, cast dynamic!! These are compelling characters and their arcs are...hm, we'll say they're sympathetic and realistic in premise. They feel like legit teenagers, both in that their main concerns are often objectively fairly petty (e.g. wanting to fit in) and in that they are not automatically typically obnoxious or complete archetypes. They feel like people I interacted with in high school.
+ Oh my god an actual sympathetically-presented genderqueer character!!
+ Yousuke is one of the most authentic depictions of in-denial homosexuality I have yet encountered.

- Both that so many of said character arcs fell flat and that the main theme of the game changed from social commentary to strawman nihilism, and I think they're connected. It feels a bit like the writers chickened out at the last second--afraid of angering people, perhaps, and thus losing sales (which is why games are probably not the best medium for social commentary in the first place), or just afraid of being wrong. It's jarring and disappointing.

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hourou musuko!

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I'm not very caught up at all so that might hinder this a bit :<

+ A MANGA ABOUT SYMPATHETIC TRANS CHARACTERS AND REAL ISSUES THEY DEAL WITH OMG
+ Shuu is so cute. She is SO CUTE I WANT TO GIVE HER HUGS
+ These kids feel so much like genuine kids that it's hard not to get emotionally involved in their lives. I want them all to succeed and grow up well ;A;

- It is distressingly difficult to figure out the mangaka's actual stance w/r/t trans issues. This is partially complicated by the lack of narration (which is something I LOVE on the whole for several reasons), as we never get any sense of what sort of lens through which this story is supposed to be interpreted (also, I'm not as far along as I'd like, so maybe this is more clear later). In other words, I'm not sure whether Shimura actually supports trans identities or whether she is just showing that this phenomenon exists. At the point where I am, all we get is Shuu and Takatsuki saying, I want to be a girl, or I want to be a boy, with no indication whether this actually means that they are allowed to be, or at least become, what they want to be, rather than being stuck just wanting. Put another way, right now Shuu is a boy who wants to be a girl and Takatsuki is a girl who wants to be a boy, and I'm not sure whether we'll get to the point where Shuu is actually considered a girl who happened to be born male and where Takatsuki is actually considered a boy who happened to be born female. All this is not helped by the only trans-identified character having uhhhh pedophilic tendencies.

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A couple of weeks ago I was really worried about some of the same things, since the manga seemed to have stalled on Shuu and Takatsuki's gender expressions. I get what you're saying about having no lens through which the story should be interpreted, since almost all of the side characters have no clue about trans people, but IIRC the mangaka wrote a one-shot with trans characters in the past in which she seemed to take their identities very seriously, so I feel semi-confident that Shuu and Takatsuki will be able to live out their lives as woman and man respectively. Just the way the manga is playing out puts any of my unease about their situations at rest, especially with the latest chapter.

I don't think Yuki's pedo shit is put in as much of a negative light as it should be, and I don't think it makes her an unsympathetic character in the mangaka's eyes or has anything to do with her being trans. :\ It seemed to be mostly comedic relief to me.

Of course, I don't know how behind you are. :(

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*seemed to have stalled on how Shuu and Takatsuki felt about expressing their preferred genders

I CAN GRAMMAR sometimes. :( I'm still not sure if that sentence makes any sense. Sorry!

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That's really encouraging, seriously. That uncertainty was, like, THE ONE THING that prevented me from enjoying Hourou Musuko completely and if it's groundless then I will go back to being totally in love with it.

I think my issue with Yuki stems from my being so used to trans- and gay-identifying characters displaying sexually predatory behavior not just in Japanese media but in media in general and I am just like YOU GUYS. NO. THAT IS NOT WHAT IT IS ABOUT STOP IT. So that's also encouraging, at least in that it's not indicative of a larger problem like I was afraid of.

Would you happen to have a link to that one-shot? I'd like to read it :3

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Yeah, I totally agree with you there. It was a bad choice in many ways to make Yuki do that kind of thing. :\

I don't think it's been scanned or translated. :( I just remember seeing it reviewed/summarized in a blog post. It's Boku wa, Onna no Ko in case you want to keep an eye out for it.

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Yeeeeah. I suppose I will have to chalk that up to values dissonance. Oh well, I suppose it can't be perfect, but it's still pretty disappointing. At least it seems to be more of an indication that Shimura is not sensitive to the stereotype rather than that she actually believes it.

I don't suppose you remember the blog post either? Ahaha I hate to be pushy but that sounds very interesting and I'd like to know more about it...

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I actually found out that it was translated! It's like the play Shuu wrote for the school festival, where people wake up as different sexes. The trans people (including the main character, I think) are treated seriously, but it's not very good. There's also a badly translated chapter on Yuki... I'm fairly sure it was the translator who got the terminology wrong and not Shimura.

I can only find a link to the first story on mangafox (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/boku_wa_onnanoko/) and here (http://www.mediafire.com/?mmyublmdhvy)'s the link to Yuki's story.

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Oh god sorry for spamming, but I forgot to warn for very blasé attitudes about subway groping on Yuki's chapter. :\ Values dissonance yet again.

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Thanks for the links, and the warning :( I'll check them both out later!

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Persona threee perhaps? Yesss???

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It's hard for me to think of specifics right now since it's been forever since I played it through completely. Also I am having difficulty thinking of things I like about it that aren't shared by P4 (e.g. gameplay mechanics).

+ I have greater affection for it than P4 I think in part because it is more thematically consistent (also because I played it first, so it was more new). I think part of it is that P3 is a lot more optimistic than P4 and I just tend to gravitate toward more optimistic fiction.
+ I felt that Akihiko and Shinji had a really compelling relationship beyond just EHEHEHE FANFIC. I know Shinji had to die for Akihiko's character development but I'd have liked to see how they would have gone had he lived.
+ Elizabeth is hot and awesome and I love her.

- The characters just aren't as well-executed in P4, like. I like all the upperclassmen, but there is an clear divide between them and the juniors that persists until the end of the game. And in general they felt less genuine--more like adults than teenagers. P3 should have been set at a college. Related: Souji was a lot more relatable than Minato ever was.

Yeah so I can't talk about P3 without comparing it to P4, sorry :(

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... THE SERIES IN YOUR ICON SARAIYA GOYOU!

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OMG. YOU WATCHED SARAIYA GOYOU? I haven't actually finished it yet since I'm watching it with irl friends but I've read all of the manga that's out in English...

+ The atmosphere! idk I just...love the presentation of the story? Like the characterization is very subtly done, I like that nobody has to tell you exactly what they're thinking for you to guess.
+ The pacing. tbh I don't think I'd have become as engaged with it if it was super plot-driven. The fact that nothing definitive happens very often makes it feel more lifelike.
+ THE ART. BREATHES. I know a lot of people hate it but I think it's so gorgeous *^*

- Ono Natsume can't draw action scenes and so many characters look exactly the same. Like I know there were a limited number of hairstyles in fashion back then but seriously.

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gurren lagann

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+ The...general design? I think the art direction might actually be my favorite part of the series. Oh, and the BGM.
+ I know the show is super popular and some anime sophisticates turn their nose up at how shounen it is but I think the show has some real heart that is lacking in other examples of its genre. Alternatively, I appreciate that there are no dangling plot threads. It is frustratingly hard to find a really cohesive 26-episode series nowadays.
+ ROSSIU o////oa

- As much as I'm willing to suspend disbelief for this series (and believe me it's a lot) I did get a bit tired of its overreliance on deus ex machina. And boobs. I mean I like boobs and I know it's GAINAX but come on. Just in general with how cartoonish this show is, I can't enjoy it on anything more than a shallow level. Which is fine! But as a result it's never going to make my top ten.

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shaman king
heroman

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I legit have not thought about Shaman King for like years so I'll just do Heroman

+ It's a smooth fusion of western/eastern cartoon styles that is very satisfying and I'd like to see it emulated in the future with other shows. Collaboration has so much potential, you guys!
+ The art style is really nice.
+ idk I personally love the sort of self-aware geeky story it had and I'd love to have a second season just because I feel like we'll never get a show quite like this again.

- I'm disappointed it never got as complex as I'd have liked and, again, I'd like a second season just because since they already used up SAVING THE WORLD FROM ALIENS storyline and it's hard to top that in terms of scale, they'll be forced to do a bit more domestic development. But uh if episodes 21-22 are any indication maybe they just aren't very good at that.

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SENGOKU BASARA also known as EPIC MANRINESS

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+ My inner teenage rebel enjoys the heresy involved in getting history totally, blatantly, cartoonishly wrong.
+ God damn this show is gay.
+ FLASHY ACTION SCENES YESSS

- I watch this show for the silliness what are you doing in my season two, angsty drama

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URABOKU??? I am so sad, I haven't watched any anime since like... late august/early september.. I left off the episode after Souichirou Hoshi's old friend revealed himself as secretly evil and having an ice dragon etc

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Merry

Uraboku is not a fandom

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IT'S A SERIES

YOU'RE EMBARRASSING ME TORA

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YES BUT I HAVE NO OPINION ON IT BESIDES LOL O U

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I am TRYING to take this meme SERIOUSLY

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I don't think I have any serious fandoms to put forward x[ tell me what you're being for halloween instead

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I'm not doing Halloween because I have no parties to go to and costumes are expensive :(

come on Merry we must share something

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/WHEEZE...

okay well people already said ttgl and saraiya goyou :( I need a list of your fandoms

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ummmmm

idk I'm mainly into video games now. I'm not watching ANYTHING this season

okay short list, off the top of my head:
Ace Attorney
Bl...each...
Dennou Coil
Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha
Hotel Dusk
Moyashimon
Professor Layton and the Whatever
Tales of the Abyss

I have probably forgotten something

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ok bleach

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+ The art is nice, if pretty sameface.
+ I think Kubo should look into work as a graphic designer.
+ He's also pretty good at more domestic character interaction. Maybe his next manga should be a slice-of-life about the fashion industry.

- UGH EVERYTHING ELSE

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